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do they discuss humanist values or just feminism and other isms?

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Re: do they discuss humanist values or just feminism and other isms?

Post  Dar on Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:06 pm

Depends upon how this society where rape does not occur was created.

I think it most probable this society was created through education about rape. In that case, everyone would know what rape is. There might even be dreadfully scary fairy tales about rape.

Less likely, this society was created through some form of biological modification or influence on humanity. Whether this be genetic modification or computer implants or magic doesn't really matter. Somehow, humanity has destroyed or modified the impulse to have sex so that it no longer leads to action without consent of all parties. Such a society may eventually forget about rape, but for a long time the techs and historians would know about rape.

Another possibility is that we are dealing with a non-human society... in which case, who knows what they might know.

When dealing with humans, i think its nearly impossible for a society that does not rape to not know what rape is.

Discouraging rape by sharing that rape is unacceptable and criminalizing still does not involve telling people directly, "don't rape." At least, not in so many words and in that manner. Indeed, doing so would likely be counterproductive. It would come across as accusing some people as rapists when they are not... and in doing so might even contribute to rape. Sometimes when someone feels they have already been convicted of a crime they did not commit, they figure they might as well do the deed. Not saying its rational. Behavior rarely is rational on that level.

Dar

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Re: do they discuss humanist values or just feminism and other isms?

Post  none on Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:09 pm

Dar wrote:Depends upon how this society where rape does not occur was created.

I think it most probable this society was created through education about rape. In that case, everyone would know what rape is. There might even be dreadfully scary fairy tales about rape.

Less likely, this society was created through some form of biological modification or influence on humanity. Whether this be genetic modification or computer implants or magic doesn't really matter. Somehow, humanity has destroyed or modified the impulse to have sex so that it no longer leads to action without consent of all parties. Such a society may eventually forget about rape, but for a long time the techs and historians would know about rape.

Another possibility is that we are dealing with a non-human society... in which case, who knows what they might know.

When dealing with humans, i think its nearly impossible for a society that does not rape to not know what rape is.

Discouraging rape by sharing that rape is unacceptable and criminalizing still does not involve telling people directly, "don't rape." At least, not in so many words and in that manner. Indeed, doing so would likely be counterproductive. It would come across as accusing some people as rapists when they are not... and in doing so might even contribute to rape. Sometimes when someone feels they have already been convicted of a crime they did not commit, they figure they might as well do the deed. Not saying its rational. Behavior rarely is rational on that level.
Criminalize rape but call it something else?

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Re: do they discuss humanist values or just feminism and other isms?

Post  Dar on Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:42 am

I don't think renaming it would count as getting rid of it.

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Re: do they discuss humanist values or just feminism and other isms?

Post  none on Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:59 am

Dar wrote:I don't think renaming it would count as getting rid of it.
Are you sure, in a society without rape if the act of rape was criminalized what rehabilitation would be appropriate?

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Re: do they discuss humanist values or just feminism and other isms?

Post  Westprog on Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:47 pm

Dar wrote:Unfortunately, children do need to be taught about inappropriate sexual behavior. Without that education, they simply don't know what is or isn't appropriate behavior.

One of my friends was repeatedly molested by an older relative when he was quite young. Not knowing anything about such behavior, he didn't know it was wrong or what to do about it. When he didn't like playing with this older relative (also a child), they dismissed him and he didn't know what more to do. So this continued for quite some time.

However, I seriously doubt his situation would have been improved if either he or his relative were told, 'don't rape'. Proper education should educate and inform while getting across that certain behaviors, such as rape, are not appropriate, without coming out and telling anyone, 'don't rape'.

Children do need to be taught what proper boundaries are. However, the most important thing they need to learn is that it matters what other people want. If they learn that, then they don't need to have every scenario spelt out.

Conversely, the people who think they are entitled to take what they want without caring about other people will feel the same way about rape as they do about everything else. There's an apparent belief that if "rape culture" could be eradicated, then rape would be significantly reduced - if there were a healthier attitude towards women, then peer pressure would make the people now carrying out rapes less willing to do so. I don't see evidence to support this.

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Re: do they discuss humanist values or just feminism and other isms?

Post  none on Wed Nov 07, 2012 4:25 pm

Westprog wrote:
Dar wrote:Unfortunately, children do need to be taught about inappropriate sexual behavior. Without that education, they simply don't know what is or isn't appropriate behavior.

One of my friends was repeatedly molested by an older relative when he was quite young. Not knowing anything about such behavior, he didn't know it was wrong or what to do about it. When he didn't like playing with this older relative (also a child), they dismissed him and he didn't know what more to do. So this continued for quite some time.

However, I seriously doubt his situation would have been improved if either he or his relative were told, 'don't rape'. Proper education should educate and inform while getting across that certain behaviors, such as rape, are not appropriate, without coming out and telling anyone, 'don't rape'.

Children do need to be taught what proper boundaries are. However, the most important thing they need to learn is that it matters what other people want. If they learn that, then they don't need to have every scenario spelt out.
I am tired... I need some rest... synaptic misfiring...

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Re: do they discuss humanist values or just feminism and other isms?

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