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The other A+ forum: a safe space?

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Re: The other A+ forum: a safe space?

Post  Westprog on Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:35 am

dancer_rnb wrote:
I get what you say, though I would have just said white people. But then, I am (or was) a cisgendered male kid of an interracial couple who now passes as a white man.

If you don't specify your background, and then disagree with the consensus view, then you are automatically placed with the privileged.

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Re: The other A+ forum: a safe space?

Post  uncrystal on Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:33 am

The idea that you can properly gauge a person's "privilege" simply by having a conversation with them on the internet is a wee bit absurd. Also, I tend believe anyone with consistent internet access has a fair amount of privilege..

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Re: The other A+ forum: a safe space?

Post  Westprog on Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:18 am

uncrystal wrote:The idea that you can properly gauge a person's "privilege" simply by having a conversation with them on the internet is a wee bit absurd. Also, I tend believe anyone with consistent internet access has a fair amount of privilege..

Things like having internet access, a home, lack of people shelling your village, never going a day without eating, etc etc etc are not high on their underprivileged list.

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Re: The other A+ forum: a safe space?

Post  uncrystal on Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:58 am

Yeah, the irony hurts. Even having the time and outlet to complain about your lack of privilege is a luxury.

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Re: The other A+ forum: a safe space?

Post  Zampano on Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:38 am

I am now listed in the "banned users" with no reason given. At least they were truthful about that.

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Re: The other A+ forum: a safe space?

Post  uncrystal on Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:43 am

Am I only one here who hasn't been banned? ha. I was only warned about my "ableist bs". Although, I only posted maybe a handful of times in one thread.

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Re: The other A+ forum: a safe space?

Post  Atheist Dude on Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:05 am

uncrystal wrote:Am I only one here who hasn't been banned? ha. I was only warned about my "ableist bs". Although, I only posted maybe a handful of times in one thread.

I received a warning for not dropping a discussion. Was asked "what do you want" just about every time I posted. Rolling Eyes
I asked that my account be deleted.
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Re: The other A+ forum: a safe space?

Post  AliRadicali on Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:26 am

uncrystal wrote:Am I only one here who hasn't been banned? ha. I was only warned about my "ableist bs". Although, I only posted maybe a handful of times in one thread.


Piegasm wrote:
AliRadicali wrote: I understand how this movement was formed. What I don't understand is the logic behind connecting it to atheism, and more importantly, the logic behind some of the policies.
Mod note: The second sentence in this quote betrays the lie in the first. If you understood anything at all about how and why A+ came to be, you wouldn't be confused about why we think atheism is relevant to social justice or why our policies are what they are. It's time for you to stop talking now.

Responding to this by pointing out that they hadn't provided a rational justification for the things I had mentioned earned me my first ban.

Coming back and responding to the mountain of ad hominem and strawmanning that had built up during my absence earned me my second ban (Doubling down!). Hopefully, once this one wears off and I decide to stimulate their critical thinking by posing another question, they'll lose patience and silence me permanently.
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Re: The other A+ forum: a safe space?

Post  Dar on Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:38 am

I got a 24 hour ban just as I was about to ask that my account be deleted.

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Re: The other A+ forum: a safe space?

Post  Westprog on Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:53 am

Atheist Dude wrote:
uncrystal wrote:Am I only one here who hasn't been banned? ha. I was only warned about my "ableist bs". Although, I only posted maybe a handful of times in one thread.

I received a warning for not dropping a discussion. Was asked "what do you want" just about every time I posted. Rolling Eyes
I asked that my account be deleted.

I suppose that it would either be for dropping a discussion, or not continuing it when ordered to do so.

Incidentally, in the thread on A+safe where they're discussing this forum, they've issued instructions that it wouldn't be appropriate to discuss them here. So we'd better stop.

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Re: The other A+ forum: a safe space?

Post  The Patrician on Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:11 pm

Already typed my opinion, no idea where it went. i'll try again. less detailed this time.

When Jen Mccreight and the other bloggers on FTb decided a new wave of atheism was needed, a third wave, one that swept away the old privileged guard of Dawkins, Harris and the other four horseman, the movement had momentum. What happened was, the people that shouted most about it realised that A+ was just another echo chamber, but without the same level of insults allowed.

So all that was left was the most vulnerable, the movement had de-evolved into a support group, one that had to defend itself against (perseved to be true)external threats at all costs.

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Re: The other A+ forum: a safe space?

Post  Atheist Dude on Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:19 pm

Westprog wrote:
Atheist Dude wrote:
uncrystal wrote:Am I only one here who hasn't been banned? ha. I was only warned about my "ableist bs". Although, I only posted maybe a handful of times in one thread.

I received a warning for not dropping a discussion. Was asked "what do you want" just about every time I posted. Rolling Eyes
I asked that my account be deleted.

I suppose that it would either be for dropping a discussion, or not continuing it when ordered to do so.

Incidentally, in the thread on A+safe where they're discussing this forum, they've issued instructions that it wouldn't be appropriate to discuss them here. So we'd better stop.

I see they're trying to strong arm a member into turning in people that post on a forum he's a mod at.
http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=716&start=425#p39348

"it’s not censorship, it’s editorialism" They're inventing new words to rationalize their behavior.

and now the mods are trying to force people to answer question or get banned.
http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=716&start=475#p40338

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Re: The other A+ forum: a safe space?

Post  Zampano on Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:29 pm

Atheist Dude wrote:
Westprog wrote:
Atheist Dude wrote:
uncrystal wrote:Am I only one here who hasn't been banned? ha. I was only warned about my "ableist bs". Although, I only posted maybe a handful of times in one thread.

I received a warning for not dropping a discussion. Was asked "what do you want" just about every time I posted. Rolling Eyes
I asked that my account be deleted.

I suppose that it would either be for dropping a discussion, or not continuing it when ordered to do so.

Incidentally, in the thread on A+safe where they're discussing this forum, they've issued instructions that it wouldn't be appropriate to discuss them here. So we'd better stop.

I see they're trying to strong arm a member into turning in people that post on a forum he's a mod at.
http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=716&start=425#p39348

"it’s not censorship, it’s editorialism" They're inventing new words to rationalize their behavior.

and now the mods are trying to force people to answer question or get banned.
http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=716&start=475#p40338


I was willing to answer, but I wanted to just drop the topic because I got the impression I wasn't going to get anywhere with it. Unfortunately, that wasn't good enough for Piegasm who it seems was just itching to ban me anyway. That's why I asked for a different mod to deal with the thread, Piegasm had got too involved with it as a participant.

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Re: The other A+ forum: a safe space?

Post  Atheist Dude on Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:34 pm

Zampano wrote:
Atheist Dude wrote:
Westprog wrote:
Atheist Dude wrote:
uncrystal wrote:Am I only one here who hasn't been banned? ha. I was only warned about my "ableist bs". Although, I only posted maybe a handful of times in one thread.

I received a warning for not dropping a discussion. Was asked "what do you want" just about every time I posted. Rolling Eyes
I asked that my account be deleted.

I suppose that it would either be for dropping a discussion, or not continuing it when ordered to do so.

Incidentally, in the thread on A+safe where they're discussing this forum, they've issued instructions that it wouldn't be appropriate to discuss them here. So we'd better stop.

I see they're trying to strong arm a member into turning in people that post on a forum he's a mod at.
http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=716&start=425#p39348

"it’s not censorship, it’s editorialism" They're inventing new words to rationalize their behavior.

and now the mods are trying to force people to answer question or get banned.
http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=716&start=475#p40338


I was willing to answer, but I wanted to just drop the topic because I got the impression I wasn't going to get anywhere with it. Unfortunately, that wasn't good enough for Piegasm who it seems was just itching to ban me anyway. That's why I asked for a different mod to deal with the thread, Piegasm had got too involved with it as a participant.

That's something else I was wanting to address, mods getting involved in a discussion and then mod there way out of a disagreement. How chicken-shit is that? I'd like the mods to come over here for a debate, an honest debate! I doubt that will ever happen though.
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Re: The other A+ forum: a safe space?

Post  rEvolutionist on Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:32 pm

cross-posted from Rationalia, because I couldn't be bothered writing out the same argument. Smile

edit: sorry, wrong post. back in a sec with the right one.

someone from Rationalia wrote:Perhaps instead of checking one's privilege one should check one's facts...

Greta Christina wrote this for the Nov/Dec issue of The Humanist: http://thehumanist.org/november-december-2012/natural-allies-humanism-and-atheism/

Right now, the most tangible form of Atheism+ is (a) an online community and (b) an online library with research and other writings about social justice, privilege, discrimination, and more. (It’s currently being amassed at atheismplus.com.)

This library currently consists of this research and these writings:


In the forum, atheists discuss social justice issues (within atheism, and in the world at large), organize action, seek and provide support, and just hang out. There’s a special educational forum, where introductory questions get civil responses, where people sincerely asking 101-level questions will get patient answers from folks who aren’t sick of answering them, and where folks who are sick of having their conversations derailed for the hundredth time by 101-level questions can point people.
:coffeespray: Errrr.... what forum is this woman looking at? It sure isn't A+!

Edit: just to be clear, I didn't write this post originally. It is from someone else at Rationalia, but it is situated in a private section of the forum, so I have removed the author's name from it.

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Re: The other A+ forum: a safe space?

Post  Atheist Dude on Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:53 pm

rEvolutionist wrote:cross-posted from Rationalia, because I couldn't be bothered writing out the same argument. Smile

edit: sorry, wrong post. back in a sec with the right one.

someone from Rationalia wrote:Perhaps instead of checking one's privilege one should check one's facts...

Greta Christina wrote this for the Nov/Dec issue of The Humanist: http://thehumanist.org/november-december-2012/natural-allies-humanism-and-atheism/

Right now, the most tangible form of Atheism+ is (a) an online community and (b) an online library with research and other writings about social justice, privilege, discrimination, and more. (It’s currently being amassed at atheismplus.com.)

This library currently consists of this research and these writings:


In the forum, atheists discuss social justice issues (within atheism, and in the world at large), organize action, seek and provide support, and just hang out. There’s a special educational forum, where introductory questions get civil responses, where people sincerely asking 101-level questions will get patient answers from folks who aren’t sick of answering them, and where folks who are sick of having their conversations derailed for the hundredth time by 101-level questions can point people.
:coffeespray: Errrr.... what forum is this woman looking at? It sure isn't A+!

I can appreciate the position Greta's in, she has a vested interest in A+ and wants to see it succeed, but if she says anything publicly she would make it worse. I think the problem she has right now is "how can it be fixed"? This site(if it doesn't end up as an mra forum) could end up as the official A+ site if things don't improve over there.
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Re: The other A+ forum: a safe space?

Post  rEvolutionist on Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:17 pm

What they clearly need to do is quickly separate the A+ site promoting A+ from the A+ forum. By that, I mean, the A+ site can become the resource for learning about A+, and the forum can attempt to meet it's aim of being a safe space. They need to very quickly get some good resources up on the A+ homepage, so that people who genuinely want to learn (like myself and plenty of others here) wouldn't be forced by default to go to the 'safe' A+ forum to try and get those answers. And finally, they need to stop LYING. What she says in that article is clearly a big lie as shown by the Ratz poster.

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Re: The other A+ forum: a safe space?

Post  mood2 on Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:18 pm

Pitchguest wrote:
mood2 wrote:pitchguest

Actually, that incident was related to this one. On the discussion of this forum, one of the users was being very passive aggressive and antagonistic to CD2K2 culminating in a post where they were really hostile towards both me and him, and defended piegasm's banning of CD2K2.

CD2K2 is cuduggan2K2 right? He's been banned? I've not been following all this, got a link?

He is, yes. He was banned, but unbanned once the "mistake" was realised.

Here's the thread where it happened. You need to go back to page 2 to get the gist of it, because the logic used is ... really bad.

thanks. [insert bad joke about hair triggers and shooting self in foot]

That was actually a good thoughtful discussion before it gasmed

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Re: The other A+ forum: a safe space?

Post  uncrystal on Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:31 pm

mood2 wrote:That was actually a good thoughtful discussion before it gasmed

Ha. "before it gasmed" I vote this becomes a thing.

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Re: The other A+ forum: a safe space?

Post  piginthecity on Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:32 pm

The Greta Christina post reminded me of a strange phenomenon about SCSS.

There's a meme where the 'big fish' supporters will take the line of "I don't actually post on the forum myself but I support the project". PZM and Dillahunty (pre-Curiousgate), took this line and neither have i seen posts openly by any of the FreeThoughtBloggers including the ones who 'started' it on the forum itself.

There's a feel to the forum that the adults have gone away and left the children to play on their own.

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Re: The other A+ forum: a safe space?

Post  rEvolutionist on Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:48 pm

What's "SCSS"? I keep seeing this.

By the way, Peezus has just signed up there and made a few posts. It will be interesting to see what he makes of it all.

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Re: The other A+ forum: a safe space?

Post  AliRadicali on Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:11 am

rEvolutionist wrote:What's "SCSS"? I keep seeing this.

By the way, Peezus has just signed up there and made a few posts. It will be interesting to see what he makes of it all.
Interesting......

Definitely going to see what the grand cephalopod-cuddler makes of this mess.
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Re: The other A+ forum: a safe space?

Post  Rosie M. Banks on Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:13 am

rEvolutionist wrote:What they clearly need to do is quickly separate the A+ site promoting A+ from the A+ forum. By that, I mean, the A+ site can become the resource for learning about A+, and the forum can attempt to meet it's aim of being a safe space. They need to very quickly get some good resources up on the A+ homepage, so that people who genuinely want to learn (like myself and plenty of others here) wouldn't be forced by default to go to the 'safe' A+ forum to try and get those answers. And finally, they need to stop LYING. What she says in that article is clearly a big lie as shown by the Ratz poster.
The lofty mission-statement ideas people have left the minions to sort out making their intellectual magic happen. Their work is done here and it's off to the next speaking engagement or writing commitment.

Unfortunately those entrusted to forge this new utopia have ended up as useful as this:

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Re: The other A+ forum: a safe space?

Post  rEvolutionist on Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:16 am

ROFL!! (we really need a smiley for this!) Laughing

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Re: The other A+ forum: a safe space?

Post  Westprog on Thu Nov 01, 2012 5:10 am

I note that there's helpful advice from the members of A+safe as to the best way to manage this site (I think the alternative term "cesspool" was also used). One suggestion was that ex members of A+safe should be dissuaded from discussing their treatment on that forum. It's not surprising that they should wish this. However, for as long as they continue to have a page dedicated to misinformation and lies about people excluded from their forum, they cannot reasonably be surprised when the people being slandered use a different forum to tell the truth.

Having said that, it's obviously better if the venting takes place on a limited number of threads. There's plenty to discuss, without having to refer to what other people think.

And: I note that there is now a place to vent. This thread should probably move there, among several others, though that's a moderator issue.

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Re: The other A+ forum: a safe space?

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